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View Full Version : STRETCH OR NOT TO STRETCH.....

MR.ROCKAPE
April 3rd, 2008, 11:08 PM
SINCE MY OLD FAITHFUL 2 SEAT BUGGY IS ABOUT TO RECIEVE SOME UPDATES IN THE WAY OF NEW AIRSHOCKS AND AS WELL AS THE FRONT BEING LINKED...

I AM THINKING OF STRETCHING THE WHEELBASE TO 106-ish FROM 101-ish,IT WILL BE ALL IN THE FRONT END!!!

SO IS 101 GOOD OR 106 BETTER???

HERES A SIDE PIC....(WHEN IT WAS BRAND NEW!!!)

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/rockape81/100_0453.jpg
Robicon
April 3rd, 2008, 11:24 PM
Streeeetch it! Get that 90+ approach angle!
jeeper89
April 4th, 2008, 12:08 AM
106 would look good,but if your happy with the 101 it is now why change a good thing? its been pretty predictabe at 101.
Dnmeistr
April 4th, 2008, 08:35 AM
106 would look good,but if your happy with the 101 it is now why change a good thing? its been pretty predictabe at 101.

Definitely 106, you see alot of the shorter rigs struggle on steep climbs but with longer wheelbase you get the front tires over the ledge and they will help pull you up. There was a real good video on Pirate I think Bigwoody short wheelbase couldn't make the climb and the longer wheelbase rigs crawled it.
Sierra Valley
April 4th, 2008, 09:06 AM
I'd stretch it some more being your doing links in the front. Are you doing 4 link or 3 link with pan hard?
MR.ROCKAPE
April 4th, 2008, 09:21 AM
I'd stretch it some more being your doing links in the front. Are you doing 4 link or 3 link with pan hard?

3 link panhard.......only drag cars need 4 links!!!:eek:

Stretching it will actually save me alot of work......because if I dont stretch it Ill end up cutting six inches off of the front of the chassis for my 90 degree approach angle(not that it ever stopped me before...).Also I would need to move the radiator behind the seats so there would be room enough for my winch!

I plan to re-mount the rear shocks with a new crossmember,as well as replace the fox air shocks with rock equipment airs all around.....14s front 16s rear!!!!

The buggy is already in the shop,measurements have been taken and its ready for deconstruction!!!
Connect
April 4th, 2008, 10:58 AM
Stretch it.
SPOON-EAZY
April 4th, 2008, 08:51 PM
STRETCH IT. 106 IS CLOSE TO THE WHEELBASE ON THE FLOPPER AND I HEARD THE FLOPPER HAS MADE IT FURTHER UP UPPER BROKO THAN YOUR TWO-SEATER. :mullet: IF ITS GONNA MAKE THINGS EASIER I WOULDN'T HESITATE TO STRETCH IT. I WOULDN'T MIND BEING AT 108-110 WITH THE FLOPPER.
MR.ROCKAPE
April 4th, 2008, 10:02 PM
STRETCH IT. 106 IS CLOSE TO THE WHEELBASE ON THE FLOPPER AND I HEARD THE FLOPPER HAS MADE IT FURTHER UP UPPER BROKO THAN YOUR TWO-SEATER. :mullet: IF ITS GONNA MAKE THINGS EASIER I WOULDN'T HESITATE TO STRETCH IT. I WOULDN'T MIND BEING AT 108-110 WITH THE FLOPPER.

YEAH THE FLOPPER MIGHT HAVE GONE 8-10 MORE FEET UP FURTHER.......AND TWICE ON ITS ROOF!!!!:Big Grin:IS THE FLOPPER READY FOR ANOTHER TRY???:eek:
rusty_tlc
April 4th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Since I'm an idiot explain the pros and cons please.
wix
April 4th, 2008, 11:40 PM
Since I'm an idiot explain the pros and cons please.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/wixjp_photos/wb.jpg

The one with longer wheel base will have both tires on flat ground or at least one. The shorter one has to work harder to get up over the hump. One pro.
One con I guess you can't park in compact at the mall?
rusty_tlc
April 4th, 2008, 11:44 PM
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/wixjp_photos/wb.jpg

The one with longer wheel base will have both tires on flat ground or at least one. The shorter one has to work harder to get up over the hump. One pro.
One con I guess you can't park in compact at the mall?
Won't the longer wheel base high center easier?
MR.ROCKAPE
April 4th, 2008, 11:45 PM
THE CON... TOO LONG WB IS LACK TURNING RADIUS AND HOW WELL THE REAR IS GONNA FOLLOW THE FRONT..THEY BOTH HAVE THEIR ADVANTAGES BUT TRYING TO FIND THE PERFECT # KINDA DEPENDS ON HOW TALL YOUR RIG IS AND TIRE SIZE!!!BIG TALL RIGS SHOULD HAVE MORE WB THAN A LOW CENTER OF GRAVITY TYPE RIGS!!!
wix
April 4th, 2008, 11:45 PM
Won't the longer wheel base high center easier?

Not with 42's :Big Grin:
MR.ROCKAPE
April 4th, 2008, 11:55 PM
Not with 42's :Big Grin:

:rolleyes:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/rockape81/100_2226.jpg

I KNOW OF A SHORTER WB,SMALLER TIRE'D,ONLY 18 INCHES UNDER THE BELLY.... BUGGY THAT HAD MUCH LESS PROBLEM...IN THE SAME SPOT!!!!

IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE OBSTACLE!!!
wix
April 5th, 2008, 12:07 AM
:rolleyes:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/rockape81/100_2226.jpg

I KNOW OF A SHORTER WB,SMALLER TIRE'D,ONLY 18 INCHES UNDER THE BELLY.... BUGGY THAT HAD MUCH LESS PROBLEM...IN THE SAME SPOT!!!!

IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE OBSTACLE!!!


Did he get off of it?
I've been thinkin about the angle Im gonna put my shocks. Do you think that would have helped him at all? His shocks are almost parallel to the ground. Maybe I should start a new thread on this alone.
MR.ROCKAPE
April 5th, 2008, 12:33 AM
Did he get off of it?
I've been thinkin about the angle Im gonna put my shocks. Do you think that would have helped him at all? His shocks are almost parallel to the ground. Maybe I should start a new thread on this alone.

HE DID GET OFF OF IT AFTER I TOLD HIM TO FRONT BURN TO THE LEFT...THEN HIS REAR WAS ABLE TO CLIMB THAT ROCK...AND GET HIS BELLY OUT!!!

SHOCK ANGLE???i WOULDNT MOUNT THE AT MORE THAN 10 DEGREES IN AND 5 OR LESS BACK/FORWARD...AS YOU ANGLE THEM THE WILL ALLOW MORE TRAVEL,BUT BE LESS EFECTIVE AT DAMPENING!!!!

SHOCK ANGLE IN THE BACK OF MY TWO SEATER(PIC AT THE TOP)IS WAY OFF..AND WILL BE CHANGED BEFORE IT ROLLS OUT OF MY SHOP.....I THOUGHT I NEEDED STUPID FLEX...NOW I KNOW BETTER!!!
wix
April 5th, 2008, 12:42 AM
HE DID GET OFF OF IT AFTER I TOLD HIM TO FRONT BURN TO THE LEFT...THEN HIS REAR WAS ABLE TO CLIMB THAT ROCK...AND GET HIS BELLY OUT!!!

SHOCK ANGLE???i WOULDNT MOUNT THE AT MORE THAN 10 DEGREES IN AND 5 OR LESS BACK/FORWARD...AS YOU ANGLE THEM THE WILL ALLOW MORE TRAVEL,BUT BE LESS EFECTIVE AT DAMPENING!!!!

SHOCK ANGLE IN THE BACK OF MY TWO SEATER(PIC AT THE TOP)IS WAY OFF..AND WILL BE CHANGED BEFORE IT ROLLS OUT OF MY SHOP.....I THOUGHT I NEEDED STUPID FLEX...NOW I KNOW BETTER!!!

In the pic (Pjs' jeep) it would seem that less angle on the shocks would give more traction on the front. I guess that all depends on the obstacle as well.
Robicon
April 5th, 2008, 12:45 AM
In the pic (Pjs' jeep) it would seem that less angle on the shocks would give more traction on the front. I guess that all depends on the obstacle as well.

Shocks don't provide traction, they control how the suspension compresses and rebounds.
wix
April 5th, 2008, 12:48 AM
Shocks don't provide traction, they control how the suspension compresses and rebounds.

So they (shocks) keep the tires on the ground right?
Robicon
April 5th, 2008, 12:52 AM
So they (shocks) keep the tires on the ground right?

If they're properly dialed in while driving on a road.

Shocks can affect how quickly the weight transfers on the vehicle in an off-road situation but they don't force your tire into the ground.

How well your suspension flexes, the angle you attack an obstacle, and the severity of the obstacle have far more effect on your traction than the shocks. Oh yeah, don't forget your tires (compound, width, and PSI)
jeeper89
April 5th, 2008, 12:55 AM
If they're properly dialed in while driving on a road.

Shocks can affect how quickly the weight transfers on the vehicle in an off-road situation but they don't force your tire into the ground.

How well your suspension flexes, the angle you attack an obstacle, and the severity of the obstacle have far more effect on your traction than the shocks. Oh yeah, don't forget your tires (compound, width, and PSI)

would this be the same if we are talking about air shocks and regular shocks? i would think air shocks are what are keeping the tire to the ground(for the most part, mixed with gravity?)
wix
April 5th, 2008, 01:00 AM
How well your suspension flexes, the angle you attack an obstacle, and the severity of the obstacle have far more effect on your traction than the shocks.

The answer I was looking for, thanks.
Robicon
April 5th, 2008, 01:04 AM
would this be the same if we are talking about air shocks and regular shocks? i would think air shocks are what are keeping the tire to the ground(for the most part, mixed with gravity?)

I'm only talking regular shocks (emulsion, coil over, etc) for air shock info you'd have to ask ROCKAPE or someone else who runs them.

However, when he stops the shocks droop slightly, indicating there's not enough positive pressure to force the wheels in the surface.

If you pressurized a shock to force the tires into the surface you'd have no compression travel:eek:
Sierra Valley
April 5th, 2008, 02:00 AM
:rolleyes:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/rockape81/100_2226.jpg

I KNOW OF A SHORTER WB,SMALLER TIRE'D,ONLY 18 INCHES UNDER THE BELLY.... BUGGY THAT HAD MUCH LESS PROBLEM...IN THE SAME SPOT!!!!

IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE OBSTACLE!!!

He was hung up on the same rock you were:Big Grin: Your almost better off on that obstacle being a shorter wheelbase less chance of getting hung up I think.
MR.ROCKAPE
April 5th, 2008, 11:38 AM
He was hung up on the same rock you were:Big Grin: Your almost better off on that obstacle being a shorter wheelbase less chance of getting hung up I think.

yeah thats what I mean there is no perfect #......:cool:
Connect
April 5th, 2008, 11:53 AM
That's what you meant on Pirate....

BTW the Boss's buggy is right at 105 and it basically walked right up that wall (after some bad spotting by the Numero 1 Spotter Mike S :wink: )
1SAWB
April 5th, 2008, 12:27 PM
MY VOTE IS TO LEAVE IT AND ADD REAR STEER :Big Grin:
SPOON-EAZY
April 8th, 2008, 05:14 PM
YEAH THE FLOPPER MIGHT HAVE GONE 8-10 MORE FEET UP FURTHER.......AND TWICE ON ITS ROOF!!!!:Big Grin:IS THE FLOPPER READY FOR ANOTHER TRY???:eek:YEAH SHOULD HAVE SOME TIME AVAILABLE AND BE READY SOMETIME LATER IN MAY. LET ME KNOW.
MR.ROCKAPE
April 9th, 2008, 03:10 PM
YEAH SHOULD HAVE SOME TIME AVAILABLE AND BE READY SOMETIME LATER IN MAY. LET ME KNOW.

I MAY HAVE TO TAKE MY BIKE AND MAKE SURE THERE ISNT 6-8 FEET OF WATER IN THE LAST HOLE!!!!
rusty_tlc
April 9th, 2008, 03:22 PM
I MAY HAVE TO TAKE MY BIKE AND MAKE SURE THERE ISNT 6-8 FEET OF WATER IN THE LAST HOLE!!!!
I'm heading up there around the 19th. I was looking for an excuse to hike the upper section. If time allows I'll walk it. Theres going to be a couple of fairly stock rigs in the group so we may spend a lot of time just getting through the lower section.