JUST AN FYI.....LITTLE SLUICE GOING AWAY!!

[MR.ROCKAPE]

FROM THE SOUND OF THIS THREAD 100,000 WHEELERS COULD HAVE SHOWN UP FOR THIS AND IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=857966

[Connect]

not going away, just reducing the boulder size to something a bit harder than a gravel road.

Hopefully Del Albright can bring some justice to the situation!

[BIG BLUE]

Don't really care that much. Haven't been on the con in a long time. It sucks that they are messing with our trails though...honestly with the small part of the forest that we use they still have to complain that we are ruining the world. Why don't they grow a pair and go after the rule polluters of the world.

[MR.ROCKAPE]

Why don't they grow a pair and go after the rule polluters of the world.

THOSE PEOPLE HAVE MORE $$ THAN MOST GREEN CLOWNS WANNA BATTLE WITH....NOW WHEELERS....WE ARE EASY TARGETS TO GET THEIR WILL IMPOSED ON US........:pissed:

[BIG BLUE]

True that..if they messed with the big dogs then they would get bite pretty damn hard...so much easier to just kick us (basically four day old puppies) around. I did enjoy the con but once it ogt away from its roots and started being controlled and policed I quit going there. I want ot enjoy my wheeling and not worry about getting a ticket. Besides we are finding so many trails around here not really worth it. Although we have yet to find a multiple day trail with camping ....

[SPOON-EAZY]

THOSE PEOPLE HAVE MORE $$ THAN MOST GREEN CLOWNS WANNA BATTLE WITH....NOW WHEELERS....WE ARE EASY TARGETS TO GET THEIR WILL IMPOSED ON US........:pissed:Unfortunately this is reality. The wheeling community doesn't have the money or political clout that these haters are packing. We can do all the cleanups and trail maintenance we can and it still won't be good enough for these haters and we would still lose out when the decisions are made. Thats why us local wheelers need to keep the trails around here underground. They can't shut down what they don't know about.

[MR.ROCKAPE]

Unfortunately this is reality. The wheeling community doesn't have the money or political clout that these haters are packing. We can do all the cleanups and trail maintenance we can and it still won't be good enough for these haters and we would still lose out when the decisions are made. Thats why us local wheelers need to keep the trails around here underground. They can't shut down what they don't know about.

IM WITH YA.....SUCKS ITS GOTTA BE THAT WAY BUT THE MINUTE A TRAIL GETS A REAL NAME AND A LOCATION ALL OF THE SUDDEN ITS ON SOMEONE SHIT LIST OF SOMETHING THEY HATE.....BEST JUST TO CLOSE IT!!!

THE WORST PART IS IF THE COUNTY REALLY DIDNT JUST WANNA CAVE TO CERTAIN PEOPLE THEY WOULDNT.....YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT A COUNTY HAS NO MEANS TO GO HEAD TO HEAD WITH ANYONES LAWSUIT BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF BEING SUED??? IF THAT WAS THE CASE I SHOULD SUE THE COUNTY FOR ALL THESE POT HOLES CAUSING DAMAGE TO MY CAR AND MENTAL STRAIN ON ME.....:Crying:

ITS ALL JUST A WAY OF NOT DEALING WITH THE ISSUE....CLOSE IT OR MAKE IT UNATTRACTIVE ENOUGH THAT PEOPLE QUIT GOING AND THE PERSON BITCHING STOPS....AND IF THAT DOESNT HAPPEN...JUST CLOSE IT...PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

AND YEAH.....EVEN THOUGH THAT TRAIL HAS PLENTY OF CLEAN-UPS,EROSION REPAIR AND NUMEROUS PEOPLE WORKING HARD TO KEEP THE COUNTY AWARE WE CARE....IT STILL DOESNT MEAN SHIT.....

[MIGHTYRAM97]

:rolleyes: yeah and I get :pissed: about the bullshit that I spewed a few months ago....I ain't crazy but I get :pissed: with this bullshit, I say fuck them and play dirty since playing nice ovbiously gets you nowhere.... fuck the greenies, fuck the U.S.F.S., FUCK ANYONE WHO GETS IN OUR WAY FUCK THEM ALL !!! TALK IS CHEAP, TALKING IS DONE... NOW IS TIME FOR SOME ASSWHOOPIN !!!:eek::jerry::jerry::jerry:

[B2Krawler]

This wont be a popular opinion, but we did it to ourselves, I have been traveling on that trail for 40 years, and although it is a lot cleaner than it was in the 80s, there is just too much traffic, and too many bad ass buggies trying to make the rubicon hard, If we all till had cj5s anf fj 40s with 31" tires, this probably would not be an issue. but when you turn a section of a public OHV trail into a rockcrawling competition for bas ass rigs, that you need to wait in line for, with sometimes hundreds of spectators and booze, spilling oil all over, what do you expect. I live at the Tahoe Side of the rubicon, and i own a bad ass buggy, but dont take it much there anymore, just because if you obey the law and stay on the trail, its just not challenging. The traffic was always about the same until the mid 90s, now there is just too many people, with built rigs. Although the Little Sluice is doable in a mild vehicle, it has just become a traffic jam of flipped vehicles, and partying (whic is fun). If closing the little sluice or making it mellow will reduce the amount of attention that trail gets, then I am all for it. Our sport is growing to quick, and w/o regulation the trail will close, it will happen, remember Tellico area, and thsat was not even in this Tree hugging state.

Flame away

[Connect]

Well B2, I see your take on the matter. Reduce the difficulty and limit the trail so no one wants to go there anymore, and you draw less attention and heat from the Greenies.

I hope you see that they Won.

[MR.ROCKAPE]

MIGHT AS WELL JUST SAY ITS A 33" TIRE TRAIL AND ANYTHING BIGGER ISNT ALLOWED....PROBLEM SOLVED AGAIN!!!:fight:

[rusty_tlc]

MIGHT AS WELL JUST SAY ITS A 33" TIRE TRAIL AND ANYTHING BIGGER ISNT ALLOWED....PROBLEM SOLVED AGAIN!!!:fight:

:cool: My truck would still be okay. :mullet:

[chicago]

I still find the Rubicon a challenge...Ive only done it a handful of times though and enjoy it every time I go.
Im glad they didnt close it...yet!

However, I see the writing on the wall that this is a first step.
This trail has been under scrutiny since I got into this activity 5 years ago, and yet STILL people just dont seem to get the clue that you HAVE to "leave no trace" and be more respectful when out wheeling.

Again, maybe not the popular opinion, but its reality in these times.
Trails are being watched...HARD!

Its not just the wheelers though. Ive seen MORE of the ATV guyz doing worse!
We were doing a day run up Deer Valley a few years back...we had a stock rig with us who was having trouble getting thorugh the boulder pile on the hermit valley side. A couple of quad guyz come up behind us and decide they dont wanna wait...they go ripping thorugh the forest trampling down saplings and blazing their own path. Retribution came when one of em FLIPPED!
HA HA! ASS HOLE!

[rusty_tlc]

I still find the Rubicon a challenge...Ive only done it a handful of times though and enjoy it every time I go.
Im glad they didnt close it...yet!

However, I see the writing on the wall that this is a first step.
This trail has been under scrutiny since I got into this activity 5 years ago, and yet STILL people just dont seem to get the clue that you HAVE to "leave no trace" and be more respectful when out wheeling.

Again, maybe not the popular opinion, but its reality in these times.
Trails are being watched...HARD!

Its not just the wheelers though. Ive seen MORE of the ATV guyz doing worse!
We were doing a day run up Deer Valley a few years back...we had a stock rig with us who was having trouble getting thorugh the boulder pile on the hermit valley side. A couple of quad guyz come up behind us and decide they dont wanna wait...they go ripping thorugh the forest trampling down saplings and blazing their own path. Retribution came when one of em FLIPPED!
HA HA! ASS HOLE!
I was sure that guy would be going home in a wheel chair. What a Yahoo.

[MIGHTYRAM97]

This wont be a popular opinion, but we did it to ourselves, I have been traveling on that trail for 40 years, and although it is a lot cleaner than it was in the 80s, there is just too much traffic, and too many bad ass buggies trying to make the rubicon hard, If we all till had cj5s anf fj 40s with 31" tires, this probably would not be an issue. but when you turn a section of a public OHV trail into a rockcrawling competition for bas ass rigs, that you need to wait in line for, with sometimes hundreds of spectators and booze, spilling oil all over, what do you expect. I live at the Tahoe Side of the rubicon, and i own a bad ass buggy, but dont take it much there anymore, just because if you obey the law and stay on the trail, its just not challenging. The traffic was always about the same until the mid 90s, now there is just too many people, with built rigs. Although the Little Sluice is doable in a mild vehicle, it has just become a traffic jam of flipped vehicles, and partying (whic is fun). If closing the little sluice or making it mellow will reduce the amount of attention that trail gets, then I am all for it. Our sport is growing to quick, and w/o regulation the trail will close, it will happen, remember Tellico area, and thsat was not even in this Tree hugging state.

Flame away
not flaming, but you mentioned these two things, well there can be a solution, without what they are trying to do ! not all of us have bad ass buggies, built to the hilt, and not all of us want bad ass buggies, the little sluice has proven to be a challenging playground, the added traffic is due in part of the U.S.F.S., and Sierra Club teaming up and closing trails, that increases traffic on existing trails, the oil spills etc, well we need to police our own and enforce it anyway that it'll stick. Education is important, but them (U.S.F.S.) and other such organizations turning off their ears to our voice is wrong ! we need to open more trails so there is less traffic on existing trails, and create more hardcore trails for specific rigs. we need to really organize and pull everyone together and make a loud statement over this or we will loose everything. They have shown time and time again that efforts go so far and they still close down trails, if they insist on closing trails lets insist they close it to everyone and everything, including the fire dept, geological dept, hikers, bikers, etc... whats good for the goose....

[B2Krawler]

Im not saying I like it, but if it keeps the trail open to those who like the trail and camping experience, then good. that section of the trail is like the posterchild for the greenies, and gives them just too much ammo against that entire trail. Im not a greenie, but I have been dissappointed at what i see happening there. You can preach education all you want to the 4x world, that doesn't mean everyone is going to listen or care, if the little sluice stays as it is, it will continue to draw the unwanted element or people who just dont care. I dont want it this way, i enjoy the LS as much as anyone, but if changing it preserves the trail, the do it.
there are plenty of places you can still go to show off.

[BryanD]

MIGHT AS WELL JUST SAY ITS A 33" TIRE TRAIL AND ANYTHING BIGGER ISNT ALLOWED....PROBLEM SOLVED AGAIN!!!:fight:

our rigs are gonna look PRETTY FUNNY with 33" tires on them!

[rusty_tlc]

our rigs are gonna look PRETTY FUNNY with 33" tires on them!
:mullet:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a171/Rusty_clt/Deer%20Valley%208_09/DSCN1333.jpg

[MR.ROCKAPE]

Im not saying I like it, but if it keeps the trail open to those who like the trail and camping experience, then good. that section of the trail is like the posterchild for the greenies, and gives them just too much ammo against that entire trail. Im not a greenie, but I have been dissappointed at what i see happening there. You can preach education all you want to the 4x world, that doesn't mean everyone is going to listen or care, if the little sluice stays as it is, it will continue to draw the unwanted element or people who just dont care. I dont want it this way, i enjoy the LS as much as anyone, but if changing it preserves the trail, the do it.
there are plenty of places you can still go to show off.

I SEE YOUR POINT....BUT I FEEL IF WE JUST LET THE GREENIES GET THEIR WAY WITHOUT A REAL FIGHT, WHO IS TO SAY IT WONT BE ALL KINDS OF TRAILS NEXT???

PERSONALLY I JUST DONT GET LIKE TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO.....I CAN MAKE MY OWN DESISIONS...AND DONT LIKE THEM MADE FOR ME....JUST BECAUSE THEY THREATEN A LAWSUIT.......IF WE LAY DOWN IT MAKES US LOOK LIKE SHEEP ANY GROUP CAN WALK ON AND HERD INTO "THIS ONE LITTLE SPOT"...THAT THEY LETUS HAVE!!!!

[MR.ROCKAPE]

our rigs are gonna look PRETTY FUNNY with 33" tires on them!

:Crying:....MY RIG WILL BE DIFF'D OUT ON MY TRAILER THEN.......

[rusty_tlc]

What the largest part of the people on board with these kind of things don't realize is that it's like censorship, there's no such thing as a little censorship. It's the same with land access, close the trails to one group that is already unpopular, the next step is close it to a few other groups, then pretty soon everything is protected wilderness and you can't even walk there without a permit.

I SEE YOUR POINT....BUT I FEEL IF WE JUST LET THE GREENIES GET THEIR WAY WITHOUT A REAL FIGHT, WHO IS TO SAY IT WONT BE ALL KINDS OF TRAILS NEXT???

PERSONALLY I JUST DONT GET LIKE TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO.....I CAN MAKE MY OWN DESISIONS...AND DONT LIKE THEM MADE FOR ME....JUST BECAUSE THEY THREATEN A LAWSUIT.......IF WE LAY DOWN IT MAKES US LOOK LIKE SHEEP ANY GROUP CAN WALK ON AND HERD INTO "THIS ONE LITTLE SPOT"...THAT THEY LETUS HAVE!!!!

That's okay to a point, but what if you decide to drive on the left side of 395? Making your own decisions is fine until it impacts others. The trail is a group resource, how it is used should be a group decision made by people who use it NOT by a group of people who have never got further away from their car than the outhouse at the scenic overlook. As long as we use the trail in a way that does not impact others everything is groovy with me.

[MR.ROCKAPE]

What the largest part of the people on board with these kind of things don't realize is that it's like censorship, there's no such thing as a little censorship. It's the same with land access, close the trails to one group that is already unpopular, the next step is close it to a few other groups, then pretty soon everything is protected wilderness and you can't even walk there without a permit.



That's okay to a point, but what if you decide to drive on the left side of 395? Making your own decisions is fine until it impacts others. The trail is a group resource, how it is used should be a group decision made by people who use it NOT by a group of people who have never got further away from their car than the outhouse at the scenic overlook. As long as we use the trail in a way that does not impact others everything is groovy with me.

IM NOT SAYING I WOULDNT FOLLOW THE RULES AS THEY ARE ALREADY THERE....ITS THE FACT THE RULES GET CHANGED BY ONE GROUP DECIDING THEY ARE SAVING US FROM OURSELVES.....

[chicago]

One thing is CERTAIN...there is no shortage of stupidity, and some of the folks that Ive seen in the few times Ive been on the Rubicon have been just OBLIVIOUS to any kind of environmental respect, or courtesy. Its not just THERE obviously.

Even though this outcome is a compromise, I get what Rockape is saying. It opens the door to further closures and any victory for the greenies is BAD NEWS for the wheelers.

However, I cant help but say that the STUPID IGNORANT FUCKS they make the example of, are ruining it for EVERYONE.
I just dont GET IT! The principal is easy enough to understand. Weve all heard it since we were kids...."CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF!"

The world IS NOT YOUR TOILET when youre wheeing!:pissed:

[RokZJ]

Myself and mightyram went to the springs a few years back on quads for a day trip. As we were going down Cadillac hill we came upon a Toyota with a broken steering arm the guys with the toy were working on it. Putting a new arm on. We offered our help as the trail was blocked. A few mins later a Sammeri (KIDS) was coming up the hill to us , as they approached they were tossing beer cans out on to the trail. Then started to yell at the Toyota guys for blocking the trail. No courtesy. Needless to say people like that is what sewing things up for the rest of us.
I have been going up there sense the late 80's.

[chicago]

Myself and mightyram went to the springs a few years back on quads for a day trip. As we were going down Cadillac hill we came upon a Toyota with a broken steering arm the guys with the toy were working on it. Putting a new arm on. We offered our help as the trail was blocked. A few mins later a Sammeri (KIDS) was coming up the hill to us , as they approached they were tossing beer cans out on to the trail. Then started to yell at the Toyota guys for blocking the trail. No courtesy. Needless to say people like that is what sewing things up for the rest of us.
I have been going up there sense the late 80's.


Those ass holes needed a LUG WRENCH to the head!
Ive NEVER understood the people who come up to a BROKEN RIG on the trail and expect THEM to move. Id have knocked the fucker out!
We were on the trail 2 weekends ago and our group had been pulling off the trail coming off the slabs to allow for ONE RIG to pass...This ass hole decides that the tail gunner wasnt moving fast enough and runs RIGHT UP to the side of his door. He was OBVIOUSLY pulling OFF THE TRAIL. Didnt say thanks, NOTHING! Some punk ass kid.

[MIGHTYRAM97]

Those ass holes needed a LUG WRENCH to the head!
Ive NEVER understood the people who come up to a BROKEN RIG on the trail and expect THEM to move. Id have knocked the fucker out!
We were on the trail 2 weekends ago and our group had been pulling off the trail coming off the slabs to allow for ONE RIG to pass...This ass hole decides that the tail gunner wasnt moving fast enough and runs RIGHT UP to the side of his door. He was OBVIOUSLY pulling OFF THE TRAIL. Didnt say thanks, NOTHING! Some punk ass kid.

Thats the attitude that closes our trails, the kids that do this need to be taught trail etiquette, either politely or by force....

[Rocky]

Most every-one that I have talked to believes that legalization of off road is a good thing because in practice that

the legalization is a good thing because in practice the relative cost/risk of


engaging in whatever has been legalized appears lessened. But they fail to realize that the state still has you

by the balls (even more so than when x, y or z is illegal). “Legality” means that your masters give you

permission. Free country? I don't think so. Legality means that they can track you and even get you to

gratefully kneel before them and pay their tribute (taxes). And you're grateful. How pathetic. Has is ever

occurred to you that nobody has the right to “legalize” or “criminalize” human rights. Like the right to ingest

possess or off road anywhere we like. Accepting that such a “right to legalize” even exists is complete acceptance of

your own slavery and you don't even realize it. Wake up and enjoy your chains. You actually made them

yourselves by believing that any political authority is ever legitimate. :laughat:

[rusty_tlc]

I think there was a message in there somewhere.

[Rocky]

I think there was a message in there somewhere.I am just saying I dont listen to all them crazy-ass politician or political leaders, telling me where I can ride, or smoke,drink,eat or what-ever...

[B2Krawler]

huh?

were you drinking?

[Rocky]

huh?

were you drinking?Not on sundays:Big Grin: